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	<title>Comments on: Fishing on borrowed time, example 1.</title>
	<link>http://busterwantstofish.com/?p=1368</link>
	<description></description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 09 Sep 2010 18:53:55 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Fly Fishermen Catches, Kills World Record Steelhead; Intertubes Erupt &#124; The Trout Underground Fly Fishing Blog</title>
		<link>http://busterwantstofish.com/?p=1368#comment-9269</link>
		<author>Fly Fishermen Catches, Kills World Record Steelhead; Intertubes Erupt &#124; The Trout Underground Fly Fishing Blog</author>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Mar 2009 17:20:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://busterwantstofish.com/?p=1368#comment-9269</guid>
		<description>[...] Oregon inching towards a logging plan that will further deplete its steelhead runs, many of California&#8217;s steelhead and salmon facing extinction, and Washington&#8217;s [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] Oregon inching towards a logging plan that will further deplete its steelhead runs, many of California&#8217;s steelhead and salmon facing extinction, and Washington&#8217;s [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: Thursday&#8217;s Drive-By Posting About Pizza, Brookies, and Bacon &#124; The Trout Underground Fly Fishing Blog</title>
		<link>http://busterwantstofish.com/?p=1368#comment-9192</link>
		<author>Thursday&#8217;s Drive-By Posting About Pizza, Brookies, and Bacon &#124; The Trout Underground Fly Fishing Blog</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Mar 2009 20:26:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://busterwantstofish.com/?p=1368#comment-9192</guid>
		<description>[...] to Fry (one of Buster&#8217;s gang) writes about a bad forest plan and elegantly captures the frustration of fighting tooth and nail to preserve a watershed against stupidity and greed. Don&#8217;t miss [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] to Fry (one of Buster&#8217;s gang) writes about a bad forest plan and elegantly captures the frustration of fighting tooth and nail to preserve a watershed against stupidity and greed. Don&#8217;t miss [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: Yard Sale</title>
		<link>http://busterwantstofish.com/?p=1368#comment-9185</link>
		<author>Yard Sale</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Mar 2009 23:18:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://busterwantstofish.com/?p=1368#comment-9185</guid>
		<description>Coupled with the news about BCs hydropower rush I thinks I need a drink...better make it a double.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Coupled with the news about BCs hydropower rush I thinks I need a drink&#8230;better make it a double.</p>
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		<title>By: g_smolt</title>
		<link>http://busterwantstofish.com/?p=1368#comment-9183</link>
		<author>g_smolt</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Mar 2009 20:43:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://busterwantstofish.com/?p=1368#comment-9183</guid>
		<description>If the ballots won't do it, the bullets will.

Time to go Full Hayduke on these fuckers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If the ballots won&#8217;t do it, the bullets will.</p>
<p>Time to go Full Hayduke on these fuckers.</p>
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		<title>By: bacon_to_fry</title>
		<link>http://busterwantstofish.com/?p=1368#comment-9181</link>
		<author>bacon_to_fry</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Mar 2009 20:22:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://busterwantstofish.com/?p=1368#comment-9181</guid>
		<description>complicated explanation, but i'll try and cliff's note it as best i can...

these lands above are State Forest, managed by the ODF for Greatest Permanent Value for Oregonians. ODF maintains clearcuts outside of buffer zones pose no threat to streams, so it's allowed to go on despite hard and fast evidence that these cuts away from the stream often lead to slides that rip through buffers and dump mud and silt into the river and destroy spawning habitat. again, it's all about value. as such, clearcutting offers the greatest potential immediate $$.

this, of course, is assuming there's more longterm value in a dead tree than one left standing, on which fish and clean water advocates tend to disagree with the ODF. through the ODF model, trees managed for max value = money, albeit unsustainable because there's only so many trees and trees only grow so fast. that's where it ends and where the boom/bust coastal economy goes into turmoil. through a more progressive model that still allows for cutting, but in a smarter manner that defines value as recreational opportunity as well as $$, trees managed for a balanced forest = forest stability = clean water = fish = sustainable dollars. this has it's tradeoff, naturally, because the cut trees fund revenue the state needs so there needs to be some sort of mitigation like a sales tax (which damn near every other state has. oregon does not) and then things really start to get interesting because people seem to love a dollar more than they love clean water, taking that dollar and spending it wisely. like, on bottled water. 

there's a ton more politics inside that whole scenario than can be explained in a little comment box, but you prolly see where this is going. there's money in the woods, and money makes some people make some pretty ugly short term decisions. 

more on the process from the camosled: 

ODF estimates the value of the timber. Companies bid for the sale.  Highest bidder wins, sometimes.   The cost to
extract the lumber against the projected value gives the timber company a sense of how much profit the sale will generate.  From the sale price, ODF gets a percentage, the county gets a percentage,which they determine usage,
and the State gets a percentage. 

more on revenues can be found here:
http://www.oregon.gov/ODF/STATE_FORESTS/Timber_Harvest_and_Revenues.shtml</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>complicated explanation, but i&#8217;ll try and cliff&#8217;s note it as best i can&#8230;</p>
<p>these lands above are State Forest, managed by the ODF for Greatest Permanent Value for Oregonians. ODF maintains clearcuts outside of buffer zones pose no threat to streams, so it&#8217;s allowed to go on despite hard and fast evidence that these cuts away from the stream often lead to slides that rip through buffers and dump mud and silt into the river and destroy spawning habitat. again, it&#8217;s all about value. as such, clearcutting offers the greatest potential immediate $$.</p>
<p>this, of course, is assuming there&#8217;s more longterm value in a dead tree than one left standing, on which fish and clean water advocates tend to disagree with the ODF. through the ODF model, trees managed for max value = money, albeit unsustainable because there&#8217;s only so many trees and trees only grow so fast. that&#8217;s where it ends and where the boom/bust coastal economy goes into turmoil. through a more progressive model that still allows for cutting, but in a smarter manner that defines value as recreational opportunity as well as $$, trees managed for a balanced forest = forest stability = clean water = fish = sustainable dollars. this has it&#8217;s tradeoff, naturally, because the cut trees fund revenue the state needs so there needs to be some sort of mitigation like a sales tax (which damn near every other state has. oregon does not) and then things really start to get interesting because people seem to love a dollar more than they love clean water, taking that dollar and spending it wisely. like, on bottled water. </p>
<p>there&#8217;s a ton more politics inside that whole scenario than can be explained in a little comment box, but you prolly see where this is going. there&#8217;s money in the woods, and money makes some people make some pretty ugly short term decisions. </p>
<p>more on the process from the camosled: </p>
<p>ODF estimates the value of the timber. Companies bid for the sale.  Highest bidder wins, sometimes.   The cost to<br />
extract the lumber against the projected value gives the timber company a sense of how much profit the sale will generate.  From the sale price, ODF gets a percentage, the county gets a percentage,which they determine usage,<br />
and the State gets a percentage. </p>
<p>more on revenues can be found here:<br />
<a href="http://www.oregon.gov/ODF/STATE_FORESTS/Timber_Harvest_and_Revenues.shtml" rel="nofollow">http://www.oregon.gov/ODF/STATE_FORESTS/Timber_Harvest_and_Revenues.shtml</a></p>
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		<title>By: 40 Rivers To Freedom</title>
		<link>http://busterwantstofish.com/?p=1368#comment-9163</link>
		<author>40 Rivers To Freedom</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Mar 2009 15:34:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://busterwantstofish.com/?p=1368#comment-9163</guid>
		<description>What's the deal with Oregon's logging policies?  Why are they so hell bent on clear cutting vs selective cutting?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What&#8217;s the deal with Oregon&#8217;s logging policies?  Why are they so hell bent on clear cutting vs selective cutting?</p>
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		<title>By: camosled</title>
		<link>http://busterwantstofish.com/?p=1368#comment-9160</link>
		<author>camosled</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Mar 2009 02:53:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://busterwantstofish.com/?p=1368#comment-9160</guid>
		<description>thank you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>thank you.</p>
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		<title>By: sir jackson</title>
		<link>http://busterwantstofish.com/?p=1368#comment-9159</link>
		<author>sir jackson</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Mar 2009 02:00:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://busterwantstofish.com/?p=1368#comment-9159</guid>
		<description>amen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>amen.</p>
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